[64studio-users] Synthedit with wine

[Peter Geirnaert]

Hello friends of 64 Studio,

To start, I'm very pleased now that this popular program
"SynthEdit<http://www.synthedit.com>"
(version1.0) for making VST plugins
is working well with the latest wine version (1.0.0-1.64studio~etch1).

With wine version 0.9.54-1~etch1(64studio) , I got error messages when I
(dis)connected any sound in or outputs,
the error said "sound engine not responding" but it kept working fine, now
with version 1.0.0-1.64studio~etch1 , these messages are gone.

I just downloaded the preview of Synthedit version 1.1 which is a testing
preview, not yet released
but I'd like to see it working on 64studio too. I f it does, I will finally
be able to completely wipe away the
windows partition from my little hard disk 'cause SynthEdit would be the
only program I'd ever miss on a Linux box.

I also think it would be interesting for Linux audio users if SynthEdit
users or developers would join
the 64 Studio community, I mean it's a lot of useful knowledge they have,
at least, I've learned much from the SynthEdit users list.

But actually my question is if there's a Linux equivalent to make effect or
synth plugins that you can export and use
in a program like Ardour, Rosegarden, Lmms, ... with or without programming
knowledge (and what language would be best to learn) ?
I'm thinking of Alsa Modular Synth because it looks similar to SynthEdit,
except it doesn't export a plugin, it only saves the patch, and there's no
GUI editor.

Thanks in advance for any directions ..

Peter

PS: Last year Mbreges and I made this VST plugin
FFDelay<http://www.freakrush.net/vstfx.html>as an entry for the KVR
Developer Challenge 2007<http://www.kvraudio.com/developer_challenge_2007.php>,
I made the GUI, using Blender.
We started on the project only ten days before the plugin had to be entered
in the competition. (I mention this to give an example of how fast plugins
can be developed with SynthEdit)
I'd like to make something this year again, and it would be great if I could
do it completely on the 64 Studio installation.

Cheers on the new wine !
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[Peter Geirnaert]

When I right-click the downloaded SE_XP.msi SythEdit v1.1 preview setup
file, and choose open with msiexec, nothing happens.
In the terminal , I see these err and fixme warnings:

peter at 64studio:~/Desktop/Downloads/SE$ msiexec --help
err:ntlm:SECUR32_initNTLMSP ntlm_auth was not found or is outdated. Make
sure that ntlm_auth >= 3.0.25 is in your path.
err:ntlm:SECUR32_initNTLMSP Usually, you can find it in the winbind package
of your distribution.
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a060 0x1001818 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a068
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a080 0x1001808 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a088
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a0a0 0x10017f8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a0a8
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a0c0 0x10017e8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a0c8
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a0e0 0x10017d8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a0e8
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a100 0x10017c8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a108
fixme:win:RegisterDeviceNotificationW (hwnd=0x1427e8,
filter=0x7e4f990c,flags=0x00000001), STUB!

So I'd install the latest winbind package with Synaptic. but there I see the
latest version is 3.0.24-6etch10 (stable)
I have the backports and testing repositories enabled.
Maybe I can downgrade wine back to the previous version, then install
SynthEdit , and then upgrade wine again, I'll try that ...

Greetings
Peter
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[Free Ekanayaka]

Hi Peter,

thanks for your interesting report. I think wine can help a lot in
some cases.

PG> Maybe I can downgrade wine back to the previous version, then install
PG> SynthEdit , and then upgrade wine again, I'll try that ...

That could work. Please let us know how it goes.

Ciao!

Free

[Peter Geirnaert]

reporting the cross platform adventure ..

When downgrading

wine from "1.0.0-1.64studio~etch1" to "0.9.54-1~etch1"

then the following packages

libwine-alsa,
libwine-cms,
libwine-gl,
libwine-gphoto2,
libwine-jack,
libwine-ldap,
libwine-print,
libwine-sane,
libwine-utils

are to be removed.

but when I hit 'apply', I got an error reply, details:

E: /var/cache/apt/archives/wine_0.9.54-1~etch1_i386.deb: trying to
overwrite `/usr/bin/wine', which is also in package wine-bin

so if my logic thinking is right, I'll remove wine-bin first ...
well first I hit apply again, but got the reply to fix broken packages
first,
doing that gave me the message that an error occured, details:
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

I removed all wine related packages ('all'= the result of search "wine" in
Synaptic)
now let's try force version 0.9.54-1~etch1 again ...

only wine 0.9.54-1~etch1 installed and succesfully :)
Synaptic automatically marked the newer wine packages to be upgraded but I
unmarked them all.
Disable the 64studio testing and backports repository ... mm, feels like not
a good idea

Try install SE_XP.msi now again ....
peter at 64studio:~/Desktop/Downloads/SE$ msiexec SE_XP.msi
err:ntlm:SECUR32_initNTLMSP ntlm_auth was not found or is outdated. Make
sure that ntlm_auth >= 3.0.25 is in your path.
err:ntlm:SECUR32_initNTLMSP Usually, you can find it in the winbind package
of your distribution.
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a060 0x1001818 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a068
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a080 0x1001808 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a088
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a0a0 0x10017f8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a0a8
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a0c0 0x10017e8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a0c8
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a0e0 0x10017d8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a0e8
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW 0x100778a 0x100a100 0x10017c8 1 0x33fe78
(null) (null) 0x100a108

peter at 64studio:~/Desktop/Downloads/SE$ wine --version
wine-0.9.54

mm, I guess I'll have to level up from my newbieness to get stuff like this
working ...

I upgraded wine again with the testing and backports repositories disabled
...
peter at 64studio:~$ wine --version
wine-1.0
and now only the wine package is installed, and SynthEdit gives me "sound
engine not responding' messages again, there's also no sound. Now I'll
install wineasio to see ... mm, it's version 0.5-1~bpo.1 when testing and
backports repositories are disabled. I'll enable them again.
Now wine can upgrade from 1.0.0~winehq0~debian~4.0-1 to
1.0.0-1.64studio~etch1 again
so first I'll see if SynthEdit can run without wineasio but just the latest
wine version for 64studio ...
Some other packagesare to be installed:
libwine, libwine-alsa, libwine-cms, libwine-gl, libwine-gphoto2,
libwine-ldap, libwine-print, libwine-sane, wine-bin, wine-utils
I hit mark and apply, (btw, SynthEdit is still running while I do all this
messing around :D )

.. an error occured, details:
E: /var/cache/apt/archives/libwine_1.0.0-1.64studio1~etch1_i386.deb: trying
to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man1/wineserver.1.gz', which is also in package
wine

but simply hitting 'apply' again installed libwine just fine. Anyway,
SynthEdit is still giving "sound engine not responding' messages.
now I install wineasio 0.6a-1

Oh damn, I just see that my SynthEdit patches where not correct and it's
normal they don't produce sound.
Now my testing wasn't really completely correct. Well, not about when I said
that there was no sound.

So, wineasio 0.6a-1 is installed, I restarted synthedit, but still get the
same "sound engine not responding' messages.
It's a little anoying as they come with each connection i change in my
patches in SynthEdit, but this doesn't prevent it making sound and even
writing to a wave file works ..

so far this report :p :D
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[Dave Phillips]

[snip]
so far this report :p :D

Hi Peter,

I don't know if it will help, but I've heard that if you put a native
Windows gdiplus.dll in the Wine system32 directory you might be able to
run some otherwise "difficult" plugins. Perhaps it would help with
Synthedit too ? Btw, I agree that Synthedit is very cool stuff.

If you're looking for something similar for Linux, perhaps CLAM or FAUST
will do the trick ?

Best,

dp

[Peter Geirnaert]

Regarding the programming languages,

C++ would be very interesting as development of third party modules for
SynthEdit is also done in C++
Maybe it's possible to make SynthEdit modules that are impossible to make
for windows ?
(e.g. a jack output module, I'm just brainstorming)

Also LV2 and the Turtle language look very interesting,
I guess a SynthEdit-like program for LV2 would be mmmmm :p

btw, the link on the Turtle <http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/> page to
the definitive Turtle
Grammar<http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/sec-grammar>section goes
to
http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/sec-grammar
a page that only states:

"Go away" .

I think this is sort of funny, but not really very informative :p (more
googles to do)

I'll install faust version 0.9.8-1(stable) which I find in Synaptic, but
clam only shows me some antivirus packages. (google todo)
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[Peter Geirnaert]

Post by Peter Geirnaert
btw, the link on the Turtle <http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/> page
to the definitive Turtle Grammar<http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/sec-grammar>section goes to
http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/sec-grammar
"Go away" .

the Turtle Grammar is here<http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/#sec-grammar>:
http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/#sec-grammar ;-)
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[Dave Phillips]

Hi Peter,

The CLAM you want is here:

http://clam.iua.upf.edu/

FAUST is here:

http://faust.grame.fr/

You might also want to check out Albert Graef's Q project:

http://q-lang.sourceforge.net/

Best,

dp

[Ralf Mardorf]

Post by Peter Geirnaert
Regarding the programming languages,
C++ would be very interesting as development of third party modules
for SynthEdit is also done in C++
Maybe it's possible to make SynthEdit modules that are impossible to
make for windows ?
(e.g. a jack output module, I'm just brainstorming)
Also LV2 and the Turtle language look very interesting,
I guess a SynthEdit-like program for LV2 would be mmmmm :p
btw, the link on the Turtle <http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/>
page to the definitive Turtle Grammar
<http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/sec-grammar> section goes to
http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/sec-grammar
"Go away" .
I think this is sort of funny, but not really very informative :p
(more googles to do)
I'll install faust version 0.9.8-1(stable) which I find in Synaptic,
but clam only shows me some antivirus packages. (google todo)

I didn't read all the links myself. No, Turtle is an odd language. I
have to say that I never learned Turtle. I does Basic and Assembler, the
best languages IMO. I also learned C, C++ and Pascal and forget them,
because they are not very efficient, BUT you must know C and C++ for
UNIX like systems. Maybe that's why I have problems to be fine with
Linux. The problem with Assembler is, that you have to learn Assembler
for each CPU, PIC, DSP, because e.g. the different CPUs have different
commands, but most CPUs are using a command like "move register", only
some oldish will use the equivalent "load register and than save
register". As far as I know Turtle is more markup language like and IMO
it's better to learn "real" programming languages. I was also interested
in computer simulation of human intelligence when I was young. Knowing a
"real" programming language is a help for any kind of interest, e.g. you
won't be fine when doing researches about human intelligence by using a
language for AI. I recommend to learn a computer language that enables
everything and for Linux this is C and C++, no other language. I stopped
programming for Linux while programming "hello world" equivalents for
MIDI with ALSA and JACK, because I'm not fine with Linux, but I hope I
can surmount my reservations some day, if so, I would learn C and C++
again and "shellscribish", but never ever Turtle ... I guess ;).

:)

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[Ralf Mardorf]

There is a Java API called jjack but only a lowbrow will use it,
normally people will use the C API ;).

I might be arrogant, but Google search yourself and you will see, C and
C++ is most common for Linux. There are some dinosaurs that re-program
shell commands by using assembler, because they also not fine with that
"evil" C and C++ compilers and the findings that Linux C compilers does.

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[Peter Geirnaert]

Ralf wrote: > I might be arrogant, but Google search yourself and you will

Post by Ralf Mardorf
see, C and
C++ is most common for Linux. There are some dinosaurs that re-program
shell commands by using assembler, because they also not fine with that
"evil" C and C++ compilers and the findings that Linux C compilers does.

To Google is a good advice and not arrogant imho, and I actually already
started learning C++
sometime ago :) Thanks for the sharing of motivating experiences ;-)

Post by Ralf Mardorf
http://clam.iua.upf.edu/
http://faust.grame.fr/
http://q-lang.sourceforge.net/

mm, Q-Faust, Q-Midi, Q-Synth, Qt/Q , these look like cool tools too..

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Best,
dp

Thanks for the links and all replies, I'll look at them all when I find the
time,
it's become quit a list already.
I might stick to moving on with C++ first for a while :)

here are some of my bookmarks I'll share for any other newbie who's
interested in the subject:
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/
MIDI PROGRAMMING IN
LINUX<http://ccrma.stanford.edu/%7Ecraig/articles/linuxmidi/>
LV2 programming for the complete idiot<http://ll-plugins.nongnu.org/lv2pftci/>
http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html#c++tutorial
http://www2.its.strath.ac.uk/courses/c/
Pure Data Introduction for
Ubuntu<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToPureDataIntroduction>
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[Ralf Mardorf]

Post by Peter Geirnaert
Ralf wrote: > I might be arrogant, but Google search yourself and
you will see, C and
C++ is most common for Linux. There are some dinosaurs that re-program
shell commands by using assembler, because they also not fine with that
"evil" C and C++ compilers and the findings that Linux C compilers does.
To Google is a good advice and not arrogant imho, and I actually
already started learning C++
sometime ago :) Thanks for the sharing of motivating experiences ;-)

I might be arrogant because I'm adjudging some programming languages,
not because of my advice to use Google and to find out which programming
language might be the right one for you.

Post by Peter Geirnaert
here are some of my bookmarks I'll share for any other newbie who's
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/
MIDI PROGRAMMING IN LINUX
<http://ccrma.stanford.edu/%7Ecraig/articles/linuxmidi/>
LV2 programming for the complete idiot
<http://ll-plugins.nongnu.org/lv2pftci/>
http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html#c++tutorial
http://www2.its.strath.ac.uk/courses/c/
Pure Data Introduction for Ubuntu
<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToPureDataIntroduction>

Thank you. I can recommend to look for MIDI programming books for the
Commodore 64. I learned everything about MIDI from German C64 books.
There is less information about the C64, but everything about the UART
and ACIA, that are the MIDI interface chips and everything about the
MIDI standard. Using the APIs for ALSA and Jack, as far as I remember,
you don't have to care about the UART and ACIA and you don't need to
know about the whole MIDI standard, e.g. how to use running status. I
should try again to program in C++ for Linux, maybe it will be better
with my new hardware, because of one problem less to think about.
Programming for audio is much harder, because of all that Furier
mathematics. Good but free algorithms seems to be rare. I never does any
Furier algorithms myself, just doing sound sampling, recording and
playing isn't the whole stuff.

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[Ralf Mardorf]

To start, I'm very pleased now that this popular program "SynthEdit
<http://www.synthedit.com>" (version1.0) for making VST plugins
is working well with the latest wine version (1.0.0-1.64studio~etch1).

I'll test this program :), because I'm not fine with programming for
Linux and I need some applications that has to be programmed.

with or without programming knowledge (and what language would be best
to learn) ?

C and C++. I programmed for other OSs, most times using Assembler, but C
and C++ is better for Linux because of the APIs, but take a look at
LADSPA's homepage http://www.ladspa.org/.

"And here are some tools for generating plugins:

* csLADSPA <http://www.ear.ie/csLADSPA.htm> allows plugins to be
written with the Csound <http://www.csounds.com> programming language.
* Faust <http://faust.grame.fr/> is a compiled DSP language that can
be used to produce LADSPA plugins.
* GDAM <http://gdam.ffem.org> provides facilities to generate
plugins automatically from graphs of simple plugins."

C and C++ is a disaster, when programming for Linux. For me it was to
hard to do the makefiles and also experienced coders for Linux have the
same problem, see Ardour's homepage http://ardour.org/building :

"SCons

Ardour uses an excellent software build system called SCons
<http://www.scons.org/>. Please refer to its web site for more
detailled information and the SCons manual
<http://www.scons.org/doc/HTML/scons-user/book1.html>.

We switched to SCons because of the amazingly poor quality,
consistency and overall design of the auto* tools traditionally used
by Unix software projects. There comes a point in time where adding
another 200 lines to a multi-thousand line shell script should be
taken as a sign that something is wrong with the basic idea for the
tool. SCons has proved itself entirely worthy of the few days of
transition that were required.

On the other hand, SCons is not without its problems, and we look
forward to the emergence of variants such as |waf| in the future

If you have any additional questions on SCons, please post them on
the ardour-dev mailing list. ardour-users should not be bothered
about it yet to not confuse normal users."

Cheers,
Ralf


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[Ralf Mardorf]

Instead of LADSPA and DSSI (http://dssi.sourceforge.net/) it might be
better to do some applications for LV2 (http://lv2plug.in/) because this
should be more like VST, not wasting resources like LADSPA and DSSI does.

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